Chris Ayoub and Nathan Apffel joined Sean Kelly on the Digital Social Hour to talk about their multi-year research project examining how churches in the United States manage and report their finances. The pair, who created The Religion Business, spent time traveling the country and interviewing clergy from a range of denominations and congregation sizes.
The conversation covers what Ayoub and Apffel say they found in their reporting, from how tithing developed as a cultural practice to the tax rules that apply to religious organizations, and includes perspectives from both large and small congregations.
About Chris Ayoub & Nathan Apffel
Chris Ayoub and Nathan Apffel are the creators of The Religion Business, a project focused on researching and reporting on church finances in the United States. Their work has involved interviewing clergy across the country, from leaders of large congregations to bivocational pastors, to gather a range of perspectives on how churches fund their operations.
The pair has said their reporting draws on publicly available data about charitable giving and nonprofit tax status, with the goal of documenting how that money moves once it reaches religious institutions. Their project has also included a docuseries built around the same body of research.
What Chris Ayoub & Nathan Apffel and Sean Kelly Talked About
- What Chris Ayoub and Nathan Apffel's research found about how tithing developed as a practice
- How the tax-exempt status of religious organizations in the U.S. works under current IRS guidelines
- The range of church sizes and structures the pair encountered while reporting, from megachurches to small congregations
- Why the pair says transparency around religious nonprofit finances varies widely by institution
- What Ayoub and Apffel's research says about how much of church donations goes toward salaries and overhead
- Their take on how charitable giving data shapes public understanding of nonprofit spending
- The reasoning behind Ayoub and Apffel's decision to turn their research into a docuseries
- Ayoub and Apffel's account of interviewing clergy across the country for a range of perspectives
Why This Conversation Matters
Conversations like this reflect what the Digital Social Hour often features: two guests presenting original research on a subject that touches a large share of American life. Chris Ayoub and Nathan Apffel bring firsthand reporting to a topic that is rarely examined in this much depth, giving listeners a factual starting point for their own conclusions.
▶ Watch the full episode on YouTube
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About Sean Kelly & the Digital Social Hour
Sean Kelly is an entrepreneur and the host of the Digital Social Hour, one of the fastest-growing interview podcasts in the world, where he sits down with entrepreneurs, athletes, creators, and cultural voices for candid, long-form conversations. The show draws over 100 million views a month across platforms. Explore more guest features on SeanKelly.io.
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