What happens when a belief system stops guiding you and starts controlling you? That question sits at the center of John Dehlin's conversation with Sean Kelly on the Digital Social Hour. Dehlin, a psychologist and the founder of the long-running Mormon Stories Podcast, has spent two decades interviewing people across the full spectrum of belief — devout, doubting, and departed.
The episode unpacks Steven Hassan's BITE Model — behavior, information, thought, and emotion — and how Dehlin applies it well beyond any one church, to politics, movements, and groups of every kind. It is a thoughtful conversation that takes both believers and former believers seriously.
About John Dehlin
John Dehlin is a psychologist and the founder and host of the Mormon Stories Podcast, one of the longest-running independent podcasts examining Mormon history, culture, and faith transitions. Over twenty years, the show has become a gathering place for people working through questions about belief, community, and identity.
Dehlin's background in psychology shapes how he approaches the subject: less as polemic, more as an inquiry into why high-control dynamics emerge, why members often avoid transparency questions, and why community — not doctrine — may be the real driver behind religion's link to happiness. In this episode, John Dehlin brings that framework to a candid hour with Sean Kelly.
What John Dehlin and Sean Kelly Talked About
- How the BITE Model explains control dynamics in religion, politics, and other groups
- Why Dehlin says active members often avoid asking transparency questions
- How high-control groups manage information and respond to internal dissent
- Why the internet transformed faith communities and fueled ex-member movements
- Dehlin's view of how tithing and temple access can function as behavioral levers
- Why community, in his reading of happiness research, drives religion's benefits
- How institutions can adopt reforms while punishing the people who pushed for them
- Reflections on twenty years of Mormon Stories and what the conversations taught him
Why This Conversation Matters
Conversations about religion and control usually collapse into attack or defense. This one does neither. John Dehlin offers a framework for understanding high-control dynamics anywhere they appear — which makes the episode valuable whether you are inside a faith, outside one, or simply trying to understand the people you love on either side.
▶ Watch the full episode on YouTube
Related Digital Social Hour Episodes
About Sean Kelly & the Digital Social Hour
Sean Kelly is an entrepreneur and the host of the Digital Social Hour, one of the fastest-growing interview podcasts in the world, where he sits down with entrepreneurs, athletes, creators, and cultural voices for candid, long-form conversations. The show draws over 100 million views a month across platforms. Explore more guest features on SeanKelly.io.
About The Author
